Thread: Can't pass by reference?

Originally Posted by JavaDeveloperPeter

I'm just surprised at how high handed people are, talking like that

Originally Posted by JavaDeveloperPeter

do you even appreciate why passing by reference is useful, do you know why people use newton solvers, do you even know what one is? I can suggest using a tutor if you would like to find out

Sigh. Do you not see your hypocrisy?

Are you implying that you *can't* do this with Java? That it *must* use pass-by-reference?

Again, this is a technical forum. This thread will be closed if the personal attacks and off-topic whining continue. Continued trolling will result in a ban.

You can either feign offense again, or move on and get back to the technical aspects of what you're confused by. It's up to you how to proceed from here.

Kevin, Haha "that you are confused by", no just disappointed, but you have to make a personal attack and say I'm confused... Mr Hypocrit. I'm not confused I understand what Java can and cannot do. And I did implement a newton solver in Java... of course it can be done. I just say that it's slicker and more boiled down to the nuts and bolts with C++. And it takes two to tango, this is just an interesting conversation..

--- Update ---

Completely agree with you jdv. Cheers.

Pointers (in my view) are something I am glad to not have to worry about anymore.
I spent five years dealing with them, malloc() and free() where two functions in C
that I waved good-bye too. Yes I did see their uses and most of the time when used
correctly they did work and did a good job.

References work "almost" identical to pointers (you cannot allocate memory through a
reference). In languages like C and C++ references where used to pass a value to a
function (called "call-by-reference"), but it would only pass the address of the value
not the value itself. The said method could then alter the value, and any changes made
to that value would also effect the original value in the calling function.

I personally prefer Java's way of doing things, I find it safer to pass by value. It means
the original value cannot be accidently altered by another method, and that always
creates cleaner code to look at

Just my two cents.

Wishes Ada xx

Finally (I promise!) I think this is why it is so important to evaluate language features and choices critically and fairly. How /useful/ is pass-by-reference in an essentially user-pointer-free language? How often are we going to need this, once we wrap our heads around idiomatic Java?

This is the problem I have when learning a new language. It is very useful to use another language as a reference as sort of leverage to bootstrap oneself. But this can easily get in the way when I start writing actual code. A mentor, lo, those many years ago once told me in a code review: "When in C, think like a C code; when in Java, think like a Java coder". This applies to things like formatting and whitespace just as much as it applies to idioms.

Yet, learning to Think Like A ... Coder is arguably the most challenging aspect of learning a new language beyond apprenticeship level and well into journeyman and (hopefully) beyond.

Heck, even going from Java 6 to Java 7 has opportunity for reevaluating those well-worn idioms. And remember even earlier when we didn't have for-each loops and had to always use an iterator?

This is a real issue in the industry, as those of us who have seen so much "C-with-objects" C++ code to maintain over the years can attest to!

At the end of the day, if you are doing this for more than just fun, employers are paying for you to solve problems and ship product, not complain that Your Language Sucks. The YLS approach can be in good fun sometimes, but it isn't solving problems and shipping product.

In closing, I'll paraphrase what a friend of mine said recently regarding Java and C#. This person was, for years, on the C# compiler team at MSFT, and literally wrote the book on the language.

"We didn't want to directly compare the languages for any reason, as they exist in different domains, but it was hard not to describe C# as Java with all the bad bits taken out."

My recent express review of C# actually reinforces this sentiment!