Thread: I need some advice

Technically I wouldn't consider HTML/CSS a programming language in that it is syntax/structure driven more than variable/condition/function driven. The syntax is fairly easy to learn, but can get difficult the deeper into it you go (especially when trying to create consistency from one browser to the next). A webpage is based mainly upon text - for instance HTML, CSS, and javascript. A browser requests a URL and downloads this text and then renders it to the user. The programming aspects comes into play when a webpage changes based upon user input, either using client side scripts which typically are used to modify the 'DOM' (eg javascript) or server side (one ore more of php, jsp, j2ee, sql, etc...) which creates dynamic content sent to the client

A) Does the browser just call a specific method/command when directed to your site? Like Java's main method?

The browser reads the text (html/css/javascipt) from a website URL and renders the result. It also interprets any script code provided

B) Won't all my code be read by the browser (essentially making theifary simple)?

In part. Anything sent to the client is available to the client. Server side code is not read by the browser, but client side code is (eg javascript)

C) Are their global interfaces or the like I can rely on?

Not sure what you mean by 'interface'. There are web templates available that provide a basic html/css template to work from.

In part. Anything sent to the client is available to the client. Server side code is not read by the browser, but client side code is (eg javascript)

I assume though with web page applets the code is unsafe correct? I understand if I use something like Java web start I will be simply transmitting output, but If I use JApplet then the browser actually parses my compiled code correct?

Originally Posted by KAJLogic

I assume though with web page applets the code is unsafe correct? I understand if I use something like Java web start I will be simply transmitting output, but If I use JApplet then the browser actually parses my compiled code correct?

Either way, the code is ran on the client's JVM. As a result, the client must download the necessary java/jar files in order to do so.

Originally Posted by KAJLogic

I was under the impression Java web start just gets output form the server? Your saying java web start actually downloads the code?

All required jar files are downloaded and ran on the client JVM.

Originally Posted by KAJLogic

Okay, so my first impulse is to make a java website. By this I mean construct buttons and all that rot through java. Is this practical, or should java only be used when necessary?

Not sure what you mean - a basic website (with buttons and all that 'rot' - for instance what you see when you visit these forums (presuming you are doing so through a typical web browser)) is typically constructed using html/css/javascript. Programming comes into play when making that content dynamic - in which case the programming language of choice (be it java, php, perl, or what have you) responds to user input (or lack there of) by spitting out different html/css (and maybe even javascript). You can use java for this, in which case you would need a container (google 'Tomcat') and server running that container. Just my opinion, but this can get quite heavyweight for smaller projects, and may be more appropriate for enterprise software applications - other languages (eg php) may be more appropriate when designing smaller websites outside this domain for their availability and ease of use. And if you don't intend on creating dynamic content a language on the backend/frontend may not be necessary - just hard-code the html/css. Of course, it's not clear what your goals are so take this advice based upon the context - perhaps clarify what your goals are

Everything that copeg has said is correct, but to maybe help you understand a little better: there are a few different parts to "web development", and I think you're blurring the lines between them.

There is html/css/javascript, which is what the client sees. You can write html/css/javascript directly in a text editor, then open that file up in a web browser to see the website you just made. This is probably where you should start.

There is server-side web development, which can be Java EE, or php, or any number of languages and frameworks. The server-side does things like dynamically create pages (so you can have, for example, different pages for different viewers). The client doesn't see this part at all. Basically, the server-side *serves* the user html/css/javascript instead of you creating it by hand. Note again that the client still only sees html/css/javascript, not any of the server-side stuff.

So when somebody says "I created a website using Java", chances are they're talking about the server side of things. That doesn't mean they're using Swing to create buttons and text areas. They're using Java EE to put together html pages, and those html pages contain html buttons, text, whatever.

You can also deploy Java applications over the web, but that's not the same as "creating a website using Java". That's simply giving the user a download link to a jar. Again, that link will be in html, and that html might have been created by Java code running on the server. Java applets are basically dead now, but they're really just another way to run a jar.

So if you're asking whether it's a good idea to create a website in Java, it depends what you mean. I think you're talking about writing the client-side of your website in Swing (or AWT or JavaFX), which is a terrible idea. Write html/css/javascript. Maybe use Java on the server side to make it dynamic.

There is something called GWT which allows you to write Java code that compiles to javascript, but I think you should focus on the basics first.

Originally Posted by KevinWorkman

Java applets are basically dead now

This is the kind of stuff I love to know; what makes talking to java pros nice makes me feel clued in (do any of you have a blog?). What made applets less desirable? All the security limitations?


Okay, so can I set up a key listener without running an applet?
*EDIT* I see now the browser seems to have some default key listener. Let me just clarify something, essentially the browser is a program reading pseudo code from me to provide desired results, and JNLP and applets are used to bridge the gap from the browser to java/any language you are using-is this correct?


And, now I have another question sorry guys I don't mean to spam. I was wondering how can I preload images with HTML or javascript so I don't have to do this:

.image_loader {
    position: fixed;
    top: 900px;
    right: 515px;
}

I know that is some of the sloppiest shit ever, but I don't know how to load an image without displaying it.

Additionally, is there a more smooth way to remove an image than redrawing? I want an image to go away after an event, but how can I achieve this without having to redraw the whole page?

Originally Posted by KAJLogic

This is the kind of stuff I love to know; what makes talking to java pros nice makes me feel clued in (do any of you have a blog?). What made applets less desirable? All the security limitations?

The security "features" are a big part of it. The way browsers treat applets (showing tons of scary warnings, etc) is another reason. And now, for your applet to work, your users either have to change their security settings, or you have to pay money. And they'll still get big scary warnings. Think about it this way: how many applets do you use over the course of a day? The answer is probably zero. It's a sad truth, but a truth nonetheless.

Originally Posted by KAJLogic

Okay, so can I set up a key listener without running an applet?

I'm not really sure what you're asking here. Stop thinking in Java. What specifically are you trying to do? This might be a javascript question, but I'm not a javascript guy.

Originally Posted by KAJLogic

*EDIT* I see now the browser seems to have some default key listener. Let me just clarify something, essentially the browser is a program reading pseudo code from me to provide desired results, and JNLP and applets are used to bridge the gap from the browser to java/any language you are using-is this correct?

Again, not sure what you're asking here. The browser reads html/css/javascript to display stuff and interact with the user. It's not pseudocode. JNLP and applets are simply ways to run Java from the browser- it's not much different than simply downloading a .exe file.

Originally Posted by KAJLogic

And, now I have another question sorry guys I don't mean to spam. I was wondering how can I preload images with HTML or javascript so I don't have to do this:

.image_loader {
    position: fixed;
    top: 900px;
    right: 515px;
}

I know that is some of the sloppiest shit ever, but I don't know how to load an image without displaying it.

Why do you think you need to preload images in html? What are you trying to do? Again, this is probably a javascript question. Start with the basic tutorials: JavaScript Tutorial

Originally Posted by KAJLogic

Additionally, is there a more smooth way to remove an image than redrawing? I want an image to go away after an event, but how can I achieve this without having to redraw the whole page?

Again, this is a javascript question. Other than the name, javascript and Java have very little in common.

What made applets less desirable? All the security limitations?

Try running an applet on a mobile device...you will quickly find out that most (if not all?) do not support applets. Would a web developer wish to exclude a huge (and increasing) percentage of their audience?

I was wondering how can I preload images with HTML or javascript so I don't have to do this:

....
Additionally, is there a more smooth way to remove an image than redrawing? I want an image to go away after an event, but how can I achieve this without having to redraw the whole page?

Its often not worth it to worry about things like 'preloading'. If you wish to add or remove an image without reloading the page, you alter the DOM (eg html/css) using a script (eg javascript). Something like jQuery makes doing so much easier, with the added capability of using effects (eg fade in/out) - but to use jQuery I recommend knowing the basics of javascript (see link Kevin posted)